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Author
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Topic: 270 wsm vs 308
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BuckaRoo
Active Member
Member # 10268
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posted
Well most of you know I just won a Kimber 308. My go to rifle before this one was a Model 70 in 270 wsm. What are the differences in shooting these guns. Is one better for longer range hunting than the other?
I like the options on bullets a lot more for the 308 since I can go higher and lower on the grains. Just give me a little help figuring out what I got to work with now. Thanks
Posts: 273 | From: Springfield, MO
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nicholas bod
Active Member
Member # 14135
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posted
I think the 270 win is the great all around favorite North American caliber, next to the 30-06 of coarse.
The 308 is an awesome round and under rated, and is very versatile as was mentioned by a few here.
Deer really like the 120 and 130 grain bullets in 308 win, they flop over very nicely in most cases, unless hes a really big boy and is on some kinda survival mission. There may be a bit of tracking with a heart or lung shot no matter what caliber.
You have to reload to get the right velocities with those bullets and they equal or beat 270 balistics for the same bullet weight. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Best of luck in youre hunting.. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 1504 | From: Southwestern Ontario Canada.
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Kimberman
Active Member
Member # 9758
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posted
The 270 WSM is alot flatter than the 308. My 270WSM handload with a 130 gr Hornady Interbond gets 3360 FPS while my .308 handload with a 165 gr out of my 308 does 2750FPS. I like both, have both, and have taken game with both, but if you want something with less drop at long range, the 270 WSM beats the 308 with ease.
Posts: 842 | From: Knoxville TN
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nicholas bod
Active Member
Member # 14135
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posted
Oke Doke kimber.
Now look at balistics out of a 308 with 130 grain bullets... hum , interesting comparison isnt it?.
The 270 win short mag is no different than the good old 270 win we all know and trust.
The short mags in all calibers are just a snow job for dummies with some cash to blow. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
I should also add that the 308 win was the original short mag, born of the 30-06... just it came out before advertising bu!! $hit became popular.
Posts: 1504 | From: Southwestern Ontario Canada.
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Kimberman
Active Member
Member # 9758
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by nicholas bod:
Oke Doke kimber.
Now look at balistics out of a 308 with 130 grain bullets... hum , interesting comparison isnt it?.
The 270 win short mag is no different than the good old 270 win we all know and trust.
The short mags in all calibers are just a snow job for dummies with some cash to blow.
I should also add that the 308 win was the original short mag, born of the 30-06... just it came out before advertising bu!! $hit became popular.
Not really a comparison at all. I have loaded the 130 gr Barnes TTSX in my 308. I got 3150 FPS with heavy bolt lift and flattened primers. I get 3360 FPS out of mt 270 WSM with 0 pressure signs. I call 200 FPS a big difference. The other thing that separates the 130 gr .308 from a 130 gr .277 is the very big difference in ballistic coefficient between the 2 bullets, the 270 bullet is a whole lot more sleek, thus it drops less and bucks wind better. Also I have never seen a regular 270 Win that can get anywhere near 3360 FPS, have you? Im sorry you dont like the short mags, but I happen to love mine, but everything I have shot with it didnt like it a bit, and nothing that I have taken with the gun has ever taken a single step. But I must be a dummy...
Posts: 842 | From: Knoxville TN
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nicholas bod
Active Member
Member # 14135
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posted
It has nothing to do with being a dummie, it has a lot to do with believing 200 fps means anything.
It does not.
Any old boy whose played this game long enough knows that shooting a deer with a bullet out of a rifle, any rifle, is gonna have a dead deer.
If you think 200 feet per second makes a big difference then you better get youreself at least a 12 powered scope on that 270 short mag rifle to compliment those 200 feet per second.
Im gone fishing for the next ten days way up north so dont bother yelling at me. I wont hear you...
Posts: 1504 | From: Southwestern Ontario Canada.
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wigeonmeister
Active Member
Member # 847
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by nicholas bod:
The short mags in all calibers are just a snow job for dummies with some cash to blow.
Nick, I gotta take exception to that remark.
The advantage the .300 WSM has over the .300 Win Mag is that it doesn't cost as much over time to reload, and it doesn't generate nearly as much recoil. Anyone who thinks that the .308 is its equal is kidding themselves. In terms of retained velocity and energy downrange, there is simply no comparison.
Comparing a .270 WSM to a .270 Win is also kind of silly. The .270 WSM's numbers more resemble (and actually exceed) those of the 7mm Remington Magnum.
The .308 Win is a good all-around choice, and I'm taking nothing away from it by posting what I have. I've sold quite a few of them, but the round has its limitations. Every round does.
Posts: 4651 | From: Arkansas
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canadaman30
Active Member
Member # 16221
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posted
A calibre is only as good as the shooter. Myself I could really care less if my gun shoots a little slower than others. My big concern with my rifles is to be able to hit the target and hit it well.
Posts: 305 | From: In the woods of Ontario
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wigeonmeister
Active Member
Member # 847
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by canadaman30:
A calibre is only as good as the shooter. Myself I could really care less if my gun shoots a little slower than others. My big concern with my rifles is to be able to hit the target and hit it well.
Good point, C-man 30.
Posts: 4651 | From: Arkansas
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Panfisher
Active Member
Member # 2803
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posted
If it wasn't for small differences and folks just wanting something different you wouldn't have anywhere near the calibers to choose from. Like Wiggy said every round has limitations and drawbacks just as it has its good points. A 270 WSM is a much better long range performer than a light trim rifle in .308 Win. Put quality bullets designed for the game you are hunting where they belong and take lots of photos. A .308 Win in a light trim rifle will kill deer all day long, as will a .30-378 magnum, however which would you rather drag around the hills and brush, and which would you rather take to a long range benchrest shoot? Different tools for different jobs, heck they even make LOTS of different claw hammers.
--------------------
Take a kid with you.
Posts: 1964 | From: Missouri
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D Boone
Active Member
Member # 5065
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posted
There are practical differnces between the ballistics and capabilities of a given cartridge and there are spreadsheet differences.
People who don't understand the pratical differences argue the spreadsheet.
Shooters who actually shoot rifles at distance understand the practical application of their cartridge and for them there is no point in discussing velocities, ballisitc coefficients and other nonsense.
Go shoot a couple hundred rounds out of your guns at 300, 400 yards from position (not the bench) and then come back and tell us what you actually learned...
Otherwise its just a bunch of blah blah blah...
Posts: 2736 | From: Kan-tuck
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simple si
Junior Member
Member # 19552
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posted
I was looking at my Hornady reloading manual and it showed the 270wsm as having 3200fps with the 130 grain bullet while the regular 270 gave 3100. Both had 24in. barrels. It does not look like a big difference to me. In my opinion magnums are not worth it in calibers below 30 and the ultra mags are not worth the bother in any caliber. Lenny
Posts: 4 | From: Kansas
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canadaman30
Active Member
Member # 16221
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posted
If your not a reloader. Buy a couple boxes of factory ammo. You can make your choice pretty quick. Unless of coarse you have money to burn.
Posts: 305 | From: In the woods of Ontario
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stewart
Junior Member
Member # 20609
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posted
I agree with Nick on two counts - the 308 Win was the forerunner of the new short magnums and the 270 Win is hard to beat. W-W understood the benefits of ball powders when they developed the 7.62 NATO but seemingly put the concept aside until the long magnum craze wore out. New cartridges sell new rifles, so they pulled the short & fat idea back out of the deck and coupled with the newer generation of denser and slower ball powders, brought out WSMs. One of those new ball powders, available to hand loaders, is Accurate's Magpro and it really does good things for certain standard cartridges also. It produces 3235 fps in the 270Win. w/ a 130 gr. BTSP. Maximum load with Magpro in the 270WSM sends the same bullet at 3360 fps, which is about factory load specs. The short mag is slightly better (with 10 grains more powder) but 270 Win can perform like a magnum with Magpro. It's performance is equivalent to the 7mm Rem (long) Mag. I think Jack O'Connor and Roy Weatherby were right - there's something about the 270Win that defies mathematical explanation. Interestingly, maximum Magpro loadings don't improve the 25-06 or 30-06 much, the same velocities can be achieved with other standard powders like 4350. It also doesn't help long magnums; their case capacities are too large for optimum performance with it.
Posts: 1 | From: Maryland
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D Boone
Active Member
Member # 5065
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by simple si:
I was looking at my Hornady reloading manual and it showed the 270wsm as having 3200fps with the 130 grain bullet while the regular 270 gave 3100. Both had 24in. barrels. It does not look like a big difference to me. In my opinion magnums are not worth it in calibers below 30 and the ultra mags are not worth the bother in any caliber. Lenny
Go measure the barrel on your .308 or most any .308 for that matter. Get back to me when you find a hunting weight .308 barrel 24 inches long.
Posts: 2736 | From: Kan-tuck
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BuckaRoo
Active Member
Member # 10268
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posted
Just thought I would let you all know that I got a Burris Fullfield II scope put on it last night. I didn't end up getting a great deal on a Leupold that I was wanting so I got it. Its the 3x9x40 that came with a free rimfire scope. Now I just need to take it to the range to try it out. Thanks for the help guys.
Posts: 273 | From: Springfield, MO
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D Boone
Active Member
Member # 5065
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posted
I still have to laugh at some of the stuff people are posting here.
"The 270 WSM is close to the 7mm Remington Magnum numbers..."
Well, a plain ole .270 Winchester will drive a 130 grain pill at 3150 fps. A 7mm Remington Mag will drive a 140 grain pill at 3200 fps. Anyone care to tell me the PRACTICAL difference between those popular off the shelf loads? Where I'm sitting there ain't spit difference between the two.
Again, the magnums buy you extended range. But not because they shoot flatter. A magnum is an extended range gun because the added velocity buys a little extra down range kinetic energy. At some point in time all rifle rounds become ineffective in terms of humane killing power. It has nothing to do with trajectory. A magnum also allows you to shoot heavier bullets faster than standard loads which few people really do. A 7mm magnum really comes into its own with 175gr bullets. But most people buy 140 gr 7mm Rem mag loads which basically means you bought an ineffecient .270 Winchester! A 300 Win Mag (or in my experience WSM) really outshines the 30-06 when it comes to 180 grain and heavier bullets. But most people shoot 150 or 165 grain bullets in their 06's AND their .300 magnums...
You can take any caliber discussed here. You will find they all have a max point blank range of about 280-320 yards. Meaning you can hold center of mass on a deer and reliably put a shot in the kill zone somewhere between 280-320 yards depending on bullet, velocity etc. OK so your magnum buys you an extra 20 or 30 yards Max point Range. Big deal! Because beyond the max point blank range you MUST know the trajectory of your round and how much you need to hold over the target. Beyond the MPBR the elevation corrections are measured in FEET not inches pretty much regardless of your caliber. So again, the PRACTICAL implications of a magnum are not really flatter shooting because there simply isn't a huge differnce between a magnum and standard caliber in terms of Max point blank range. The magnum buys you more range because it provides more downrange energy required to kill a deer or an elk farther out In most cases we are talking about ranges in the 400-500 yard area in terms of useable energy. And again, if you don't routinely shoot your rifles at 400 or 500 yards you have no friggin idea how hard it is to actually hit a kill zone on a deer at those ranges. Nor do you have any idea of what kind of elevation changes you need to make. Oh sure, you can look at ballistics tables. But my experience is ballistics table corrections
will get you into the 8 ring on a long range target but will not provide for a 2 MOA level of accuracy for a hit in the 10 ring. At 400 yards that's an 8" circle btw...
So regardless of what rifle caliber you shoot you need to be intimate with how your rifle actually shoots on paper at any range beyond say 300 yards. And the ONLY way you get there is to actually shoot your rifles at 350, 400 yards etc. And the only way you get good at shooting long range targets is to actually shoot a LOT of long range targets.
So unless all that applies to you, all you guys are arguing about is a difference of 20 yards or so in terms of max point blank range. In reality most of you zero your guns for 100 yards not for the max point blank distance. Which means you can argue about calibers and velocities until the cows come home but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the end because you aren't using (or really capable of using) your guns at the edge of their performance capabilties anyways!
Posts: 2736 | From: Kan-tuck
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compound
Active Member
Member # 17383
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posted
D Boone, that would make an outstanding magazine article. All you would need to do is include a few pics of cartridges for comparison and maybe a chart comparing the range, energy and trajectory of the different calibre/weights, etc. and you would be in business.
......well, I don't think it would please everyone thought, because it takes the argument out of "whats the best and what ain't".
Posts: 420 | From: northeast Tenn.
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D Boone
Active Member
Member # 5065
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posted
I've shot a LOT of long range rifle competition. Shooting at 300-400 yards and beyond takes a lot of skill, a lot of practice, a lot of resources, and a lot of time. You just don't get up and do it. The logistics alone are very difficult.
Few range facilties will actually support 300-400 yard target practice. You can't see the bullet holes at 300 yards and beyond with ANY kind of optics. Which means you have to walk down or drive down to the target to check it...which is a PITA. Unless you have pull targets and a friend in the pits its a lot of work just to see how you are doing.
How do you know the shot you just took in a 5 MPH crosswind wasn't the one that broke a little left when you pulled the trigger unless you get feedback on every shot?
It also takes a LOT of ammo....
Posts: 2736 | From: Kan-tuck
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BOYCOTTPEACE
Junior Member
Member # 20926
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posted
270 win is my favorite but the 270 wsm does slightly exceed it's capability's but in my eye's not enough to justify the rather large price in ammo cost. If you check the charts both 270 win and 270 wsm out perform the 308 but the 308 is a good round and has been proven time and time again as a accurate cartridge with plenty of knockdown power for deer size game.
Posts: 2 | From: Nebraska
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