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Author
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Topic: .30-06 vs .308
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Roy913
Junior Member
Member # 375
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posted
Do any of you have an opinion on purchasing a .308 vs a .30-06?I would mainly hunt white tail, but would have access to elk and possibly moose. I see that a lot of police snipers use the .308. Why don't they use 30-06? If any one can explain the differences, I would very much appreciate it. By the way, the rifle I will probably buy is a Remington 700 synthestic stock. Which caliber?
Posts: 40
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DennyV
Junior Member
Member # 404
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posted
The .308 case is one of the most efficient cases around for achieving maximum performance so the .308 round is much flatter shooting over the same distances than the .30-06. However, by the same token the smaller .308 case does not allow for the velocities of the larger .30-06 case. Thus the .308 looses it's effective killing power quicker than the .30-06. The .308 is an excellent round for game up to the 400 lb class. My kids and I have taken numerous mulies, whitetails, bears and exotics with this round. However, out past 300 yards or with a larger animal, the .30-06 wins hands down. Yes, I know that the .308 is capable of taking a moose at 150 yards with proper shot placement, well so in the .22 when they are shot in the brain, through the eye. But ethically you would want to use the harder hitting .30-06 with atleast a 180 grain bullet or bigger on moose. Before choosing the caliber you are going to buy, determine what the largest animal you would ever want to hunt and then buy the caliber capable of humanly harvesting that animal. As for rifles, have you looked at the Savage line? I know that Savages had reputation of being bad choices several years ago, but ever since Ron Colburn purchased them they have made a dramatic turn around. My son hunt with a Savage FP-10 in .308 and we can achieve 1/2 inch groups at 2oo yards with my handloads. My daughter hunts with a Savage 110 in .7mm-08 and we can clover leaf the shots at 100 yards. Both guns have taken over 35 heads of game in the last few years.
Posts: 2 | From: Houston, TX
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Roy913
Junior Member
Member # 375
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posted
Denny, I will look at the Savage line, and thank you for your input.
Posts: 40
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Clint
unregistered
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posted
Roy,These two cartridges are so close that I would suggest going with whichever you found the best deal on. The .308 will typically give you about 6% less energy than a comparable 30-06 cartridge but will also have apx 20% less recoil. The reason the police tend to use this cartridge is the need for a very accurate cartridge and the .308 has won more long distance shooting matches than any other .30 cal bullet on the market. Depending on the bullet you choose to compare you will notice the .308 will have apx a (1 to 1.5 inch) greater bullet drop than a similar 30-06 at 300yrds with both bullets sighted for a 200yrd zero. In reference to the .308 and large game I would have no problem taking it hunting with confidence in it's abilities. If you should buy into the belief that deer sized game should be hit with at least 1000ft/lbs at impact and Elk sized game 1500ft/lbs you could easily use this cartridge out past 400yrds . There are several cartridges on the market for the .308 which will exceed 1500ft/lbs at 400yrds should you wish to hunt such game. It is important to remember that 90% of the Deer taken each year are at distances under 150yrds and most Elk under 300yrds. There are far more long distance rifles in the woods each year than they are long distance shooters. When you start attempting to shoot for accuracy at distances past 300yrds you will realize the need to practice such a shot and most hunters rely on the claims of there rifles potential far greater than there own shooting skills. I have chronographed several different factory loads in the .308 and 30-06 and have often found the difference to be 100fps or slightly greater . Please dont get me wrong a advantage is still a advantage but I would'nt start to claim it making one cartridge so much greater than another . Most people will tell a difference in the perceived recoil of these two cartridges and tend to shoot the .308 slightly more accurately. If you are not afraid of the recoil you will keep yourself from developing the flinches. In the end shot placement will determine how effectively the game will be taken and not whatever benefits you might see in the ballistic tables. If you wish to plink and practice you can still find surplus .308 ammo for as cheap as $5.00 a box of 20 and this can make for a fun afternoon without breaking the bank. Both are excellent cartridges and I feel you would do well regardless of your choice. I prefer the .308 as a all around cartridge as much for it's potential for performance as it's chambering in several mountain style rifles.
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Savage01
Junior Member
Member # 441
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posted
Grr. After reading im planing to buy a .308 I have a -06 and useing it for whitetale. but ill hang onto my -06 for a wile.
-------------------- Good luck all!
Posts: 17 | From: Cheboygan, MI
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Clint
unregistered
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posted
Savage01 ,The .308 is a fine cartridge and one of my favorites but is in no way better than a 30-06. There are benefits which it has such as a low recoil, mild muzzle blast and it works well in a short handy barrel. I found that as my years continue to pass by me that these features far exceed the minor difference found in the ballistics of these two cartridges. I agree with the previous post that if you wish to hunt Elk and other large game the -06 would be a better cartridge. I simply wouldnt trade a .308 in if one should have the chance to hunt Elk and didnt own a magnum . I feel that out past the distances which most hunters shouldnt be shooting the .308 will match the performance of a 30-06 on the game your hunting.
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JCSABOLT2
Active Member
Member # 75
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posted
According to my reloading manual there isn't a hill of beans difference between the two calibers ballistically unless you are a competitive shooter. My manual states that the 308 case can be loaded to be ballistically supperior to the 30-06.The reason police snipers use the 308 is because the military established it as their sniper round years ago. However, I know for a fact that the Marines use the 50 BMG for picking off people at over 1,000 yards now. There's a guy in my office that had first hand experience with this. Fact is both cartridges are excellent for the game you are describing if "you" do your part. It is correct in stating that the 308 does have less recoil than the 30-06. However, if you plan on being a one gun hunter, the 30-06 is hard to beat. You can get factory loaded ammunition from 125gr to 220gr. If you plan on hunting deer and ocassionally an elk or moose the 308 will do just fine. Most people cannot shoot over 200-300 yards accurately in field conditions. Either way, it's your call. If you can, find someone that has both calibers and shoot them. See what you think and prefer to shoot. It's your gun! If recoil is a problem for you, check out www.bp-tec.com and have one of their comps installed on your gun. They do not increase muzzle blast, but rather reduce it a few decibles, and totally neutralize muzzle flip. Check out their MPG's files. They may take a little to download depending on your internet connection, but well worth it.
-------------------- Check out the facts! http://www.junkscience.com/ NO MUZZLE FLIP ON 50 BMG OR ANY OTHER GUN! Venturi Accelerator http://www.bp-tec.com/
Posts: 148 | From: Springfield, Ohio
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life157
Junior Member
Member # 14748
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posted
i agree and disagree with alot of people...the 308 has just as much kick as 06 but the 308 is a clean slice through..but the 06 hits and rips and twists everythning in its way...but if u eat the meat a 308 is better..but if u dont feel like walking hundreds of yrds to find a dead animal the 06 is better
but to tell u the truth i hunt with a .50 cal bmg. anything it hits its dead on contact...ive even hit a tree once and it still went striaght through the bear
Posts: 53 | From: Raleigh,NC
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Panfisher
Active Member
Member # 2803
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posted
OK I normally stay out of this but.... If you launch a 30 cal (.308") bullet from a .308 Win and a 30-06 at the exact velocity there is no deer or other critter on the planet that can tell any difference. Why because the exact same bullet traveling at the exact speed is the same regardless of what you shoot it out of. The difference to me is this. 30-06's have the advantage of having a little more oomph if needed. The .308 is a very consistent and accurate round but where it really shine to me is in its ability to chambered in a short action lighter weight rifle. If I have to pack around a fully size and weight rifle, I will pick a 30-06 and load my own rounds to a moderate velocity (basically .308 Win specs) and still have the ability to tap into the larger case capacity if I want to load heavier (longer) bullets for things like moose and elk. If I was planning on hunting deer/antelope and maybe elk at shorter ranges (250 yards) I would rather have the .308 but in a shorter easier to carry and maneuver rifle such as a Win 70 featherweight or Rem mdl 7. and shoot premium grade bullets. Just my opinion and like sphincters everybody gots one.
-------------------- Take a kid with you.
Posts: 1964 | From: Missouri
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Marshall
Active Member
Member # 60
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posted
The .308 and 30 06 area basically ballistic twins when the bullet weight is lower- 165 grains and below. Once the bullet weight increases the smaller case of the .308 does not have the capicity to push the heavier bullets as well as the good ole 06.
I love both my 06 and my .308. For deer, there is in a hill of beans worth a difference. While eveyone will state that the .308 is "more accurate" I have shot both in competition out to 1000 yards. My best shoot was with a 30-06- M1. While the recoil on the .308 is probably lower- in hunting weapons it probably has more to specifics to the rifles, stock design, weight... But in identical rifles the 06 will have a slightly higher felt recoil.
I would agree with the post above that an 06 will be better with the moose and elk on the menu. While some will argue that the 06 is not the best choice for moose and elk- it has been and will continue to perform on these animals for years to come. Pick a premium bullet in the 180 grain range (or higher) that your rifle likes and you should be fine.
Good luck-
Marshall
Posts: 1395 | From: Brighton, MI
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gobblerkiller14
Junior Member
Member # 14821
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posted
308 vs. 30-06? I'd have to say 30-06 period. The 308 is not a bad gun. But I was hunting on a hilltop in my stand this last season and I was using my 308. He was a good 250 yards away, and I have my scoped sighted in dead on. I shot him and I missed. Then I tried aiming up an inch and it missed. Needless to say, the 308 bullet is so light, that you have to aim high up on far away shots. I'd just rather be hunting with a slugged shotgun than a 308. But if you are hunting in heavy woods, then I would take the 308 because it has great knockdown power. I just think the 30-06 is an awesome, good-all-around gun and it can kill nearly any big game animal.
Posts: 9 | From: Ohio
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tddeangelo
Active Member
Member # 9725
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posted
Wow....there is a LOT of misinformation on this thread. Marshall cleared up a lot.
As far as the .308 having superior ballistics to the .30-06, that is at MAXIMUM loading using 150gr. bullets. Other than that, it's dead even or tipped slightly in the '06's favor. Where there are differences between the two, they are generally negligible until we're talking 180gr+ bullet weights.
As for accuracy, I'll mostly leave that alone. I've said this before though: use and success in matches is NOT any proof of inherent accuracy. It's proof of widespread use. Proof of inherent accuracy would come from testing that eliminates variables, and simple match results DO NOT DO THAT. Use by snipers DOES NOT DO THAT. Is there a difference in accuracy between the rounds? Possibly. But widespread use, anecdotal evidence, and military use do not prove it exists. They point to a LIKELIHOOD that it MIGHT exist, but nothing more.
It's kinda like me saying "Toyotas are the most reliable cars out there. Look how many people buy them!" It might be true. Might not. But my intuition, a race car driver using one, a rental car agency using them...none of that PROVES anything.
As for a slug gun vs. a .308.....the .308 wins any day and twice on Sunday. No question in my mind. Less recoil and a FAAAAAAAAR longer reach on deer-sized game.
People tend to forget, and it was mentioned here (eventually) that a .308 caliber projectile moving at a specific velocity is now the same, whether it originated from a .308 Winchester or a .30-06 Springfield.
And as was mentioned, the MAIN benefit to a hunter of the .308 is the ability to obtain it in a short action bolt rifle, which will usually be somewhat shorter and lighter than the long action alternatives.
This discussion bubbles up from time to time, and it usually boils down to the fact that for most people, there is no appreciable difference. If the .308 IS more accurate, only a match shooter AT a match will notice the difference. I've yet to meet the shooter who could tell such a minute difference in the field shooting at game. If there's a ballistic advantage either way in 150/165gr bullets, it will be beyond negligible in the field.
It's simply too academic to be worth the discussion.
Posts: 1852 | From: Southeastern Pennsylvania
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nicholas bod
Active Member
Member # 14135
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posted
I don't think any one has mentioned a few key points on the reasons why a .308Win is superior to the 30-06.First there is the shorter action(lighter weight rifle)The ability to consume and burn, virtually any gun powder effectively,at about 10%less than the odd-6 for roughly the same velocities. and last but not least,the tremendous accuracy that can be achieved in the right hands. The heart and lungs on a larger critter don't recognize the difference, when you slip one in at 2750fps or 2850fps respectively, between their ribs, or shoulder for that matter.Recoil is considerably less as well ,meaning more fun at the range.....
Posts: 1504 | From: Southwestern Ontario Canada.
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tddeangelo
Active Member
Member # 9725
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posted
quote: Originally posted by nicholas bod: I don't think any one has mentioned a few key points on the reasons why a .308Win is superior to the 30-06......and last but not least,the tremendous accuracy that can be achieved in the right hands.
And is this tremendous accuracy exclusive to the .308 Winchester? Last I knew, .308 sporter rifles and .30-06 sporter rifles would shoot about the same. And if the .308(IF!) is more accurate, how much more accuracy are we talking? 1/2MOA at the VERY most? WHO on this board can make a case for that being ANYTHING of importance in use in the field? Can you hold your rifle steady enough to see 1/2MOA difference at 100 yards? 200? 300? Not on a bench....offhand, sitting, prone. Can someone really do that? I'd like to see it.
This "the .308 is better for hunting because of its superior accuracy" hoo-ha that comes up every few months is silly. If you are that good a shot that one or the other is going to be appreciably better in your hands simply by virtue of being a .308 or .30-06, get your keister on a firing line for high power matches and start raking in the wins.
Posts: 1852 | From: Southeastern Pennsylvania
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RemMan
Active Member
Member # 14611
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posted
quote: Originally posted by gobblerkiller14: 308 vs. 30-06? I'd have to say 30-06 period. The 308 is not a bad gun. But I was hunting on a hilltop in my stand this last season and I was using my 308. He was a good 250 yards away, and I have my scoped sighted in dead on. I shot him and I missed. Then I tried aiming up an inch and it missed. Needless to say, the 308 bullet is so light, that you have to aim high up on far away shots. I'd just rather be hunting with a slugged shotgun than a 308. But if you are hunting in heavy woods, then I would take the 308 because it has great knockdown power. I just think the 30-06 is an awesome, good-all-around gun and it can kill nearly any big game animal.
The bullet used in the . 308 and .30-06 is the exact same bullet. So saying the .308 is "lighter" is not correct.
.30-06 and .308 are very similar. If you go to Remington website you can compare three different rifle calibers at once and compare the ballistics: Remington
The plus side to both calibers is that you can find them anywhere ammunition is sold. I would say the most popular Deer-Moose calibers are .270, .308,.30-06, and .300 win mag. I have owned .270, .308, and .30-06 and loved all of them.
Posts: 101 | From: North Central Texas
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model70man
Active Member
Member # 5264
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posted
Wow!!! somebody dug deep into the archives to bring this thread back to life.
I had to laugh when somebody said the 308 was flatter shooting but it didn't have the velocity of the 06.
Posts: 1580 | From: tennessee
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tddeangelo
Active Member
Member # 9725
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posted
You know.....I can tell it's a long day at work when I don't notice how old the friggin' thread is....
Thanks for the assist, there model70man. Sometimes my brain needs a good thwack once in a while.
BTW- did you see my other thread about my new rifle? It's even a .30-06!!!!! The ORIGINAL .30-06!
Posts: 1852 | From: Southeastern Pennsylvania
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Marshall
Active Member
Member # 60
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posted
I did not notice how dated this thread was either. But I am very surprised at the bad information that was being passed- as you pointed out TDD. It amazes me things that people believe- not sure how it happens either.
Marshall
Posts: 1395 | From: Brighton, MI
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D Boone
Active Member
Member # 5065
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posted
In the lighter bullet weights (147-150 grains) its a wash. The .308 is very effecient and does well. When you begin to step up in bullet weight (165-168) the case capacity of the 30-06 begins to beat the effeciency of the .308--quite literally you cannot stuff enough powder in the .308 case to drive the heavier bullets (which also eat up case capacity). When you get into the 180-190 grain bullets its no contest--the /06 wins hands down by 150-200 fps.
I've shot both extensively and at last count own something like 7 rifles in .308 and 9 or 10 in /06.
As a general rule you cannot make a .308 outperform a 30-06 under almost any circumstance. Certain individual rifles/handloads may gain a small marginal advantage in the 150 grain bullet weight category. Those are the exception and not the rule. But as I said once you move out of deer bullets the men get separated from the boys and the /06 wins every time.
The difference in action length is roughly 1/2" --big whoop. The .308 is also much harder on brass than the .30/06.
Finally, the .30/06 still holds more Camp Perry records than any other rifle cartidge.
If elk and other big game are on the ticket its no contest. Buy the .30/06!
Posts: 2736 | From: Kan-tuck
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Marshall
Active Member
Member # 60
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posted
At least it ended with some good information... I hope that if someone reads it they read the whole thing!!
Posts: 1395 | From: Brighton, MI
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nicholas bod
Active Member
Member # 14135
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posted
I've been a member of this forum for a short 3.5 months so I don't know about previous posts regarding this topic,as I'm sure a lot of older members see the same old, same old, topics and answers come up from new members and get quite bored with it(I'm starting to see it myself).Fact is we'll prolly see it again some time soon.We all love to put our .2cents wort in when its a topic we like or know about and want to share info on.So I say just enjoy and go with it.Best of luck with all our .30cal pursuits.....
Posts: 1504 | From: Southwestern Ontario Canada.
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5star
Moderator
Member # 25
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posted
I don't usually add much to the ballistic threads because I am not as smart on that stuff as others are. I usually just wait till Dboone puts in his view and go with that. I don't personally know Dboone but over the years on this forum I would trust his info as much or more than anyone else here.
Posts: 2423 | From: Nebraska
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