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Author Topic: 7mm for elk???
ore_hunter_13
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I drew a tag here in oregon and i was looking at getting a new elk rifle. the 7mm came to mind but i didnt know if it would have the range along with the nock down power at 300+ yards. lemme know what u think
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D Boone
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Put a good 175gr bullet up the tube and you'll be golden....
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BlueNorther
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You won't even look back after getting the 7mm mag,I didn't.Last bull elk I killed with it was with a 145gr,but it was a short shot,30 yards in the neck.I'm partial to Speer 175gr Grand Slams for heavy game like elk,but have taken moose at 200 yards + with lighter bullets.
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model70man
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The 7mm is an awesome cartridge for elk. I was watching a hunting show about 3 weeks ago, (re-run from last year) and a woman was using a Thompson Center Encore chambered in 7mm and she made an unbelieveable shot across a valley, about 350-400 yds and her bullet of choice was a 150 grain Nolser Ballistic Tip. Dropped the elk in it's tracks!!! I personally wouldn't hunt elk with a Nosler ballistic tip bullet for elk. I would go with 160 grain Nosler Accubond or the 160 grain Barnes Triple Shock.
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Panfisher
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Feed the Big 7 a good quality bullet, preferablly in the 160 to 175 grain range, something along the lines of the Partition, Grand Slam, Barnex X assuming your rifle likes them. Practice with it and the elk will go down quite well. Be sure to put a good quality scope on it.

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Take a kid with you.

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ore_hunter_13
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Thanks for the feedback. i think i will be taking it in to SERIOUS consideration now.
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G.MAN
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quote:
Originally posted by Panfisher:
Feed the Big 7 a good quality bullet, preferablly in the 160 to 175 grain range, something along the lines of the Partition, Grand Slam, Barnex X assuming your rifle likes them. Practice with it and the elk will go down quite well. Be sure to put a good quality scope on it.

I agree with everyone else. If you shoot a barnes make sure all and I mean all of the copper is out of the gun before you switch to barnes bullets.
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ore_hunter_13
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I am confused what do u mean by all the copper in the gun? i havent ever shot barnes bullets
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D Boone
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At 300-400 yards the Ballistic Tip was probably the optimum bullet to use provided you weren't trying to break a shoulder or other big bone...but yeah. I'd be carrying something like a Partition.

The heavy 175 grain bullet is the best long range choice. The only factor in the bullet energy calculation that doesn't change is bullet weight. Velocity drops off dramatically the farther out you go and the 175 grain will actually enjoy a velocity advantage over something like a 160 or 140 grain because it should have a better ballistic coeffecient, therefore better retained velocity and energy. Most any 7mm Rem Mag can come close to a 180 grain 300 WIn Mag in terms of energy with much better ballistics.

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bushbunny
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I have used a 7mm Rem Mag for moose and elk for the past 35 years. Never has one walked(or run)away, with some shots being as long as 350 yds. Using Federal Premiums with 160 grain Nosler Partitions has required at most 2 shots before they lay down and wait for me to do the butchering.

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Why would you take a stick to a gunfight?

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ko338
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Most hunting bullets have coper jackets, and all of them copper foul to one degree or another.

I think what GLoomisman is talking about is that barnes bullets are very hard, and any copper fouling left in the bore, could tend to bulge the bore where copper is built up.

Also, if you get moly coated bullets I would clean the bore well first then too.

In fact, I would advise against ever putting a molly coated bullet down a bore. I am totally against moly. I have already had the debate, and read other peoples debates, but I still feel the same way. No moly for me.

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"Big guns can be loaded down to little gun levels, little guns are always little guns"

"Dead is Dead"

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D Boone
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No...Barnes bullets are solid copper which is much softer than the traditional bullet jacket made of gilding metal. Barnes bullets typically lay down a pretty good layer of copper fouling pretty fast and their ability to group well is affected by significant copper fouling. So Barnes sells an aggressive copper remover too... The new Triple Shock X-bullet is supposed to reduce the problem with copper fouling and also reduce the higher pressures associated with driving a soft, very long bullet, with a high coeffecient of friction. I haven't tried them yet but am interested in the 120 gr triple shocks for my new 7-08. I've not been a fan of Barnes X bullets in the past mainly because I had accuracy issues with them. Some people can get em to shoot wonderfully. They do have a superb reputation once the slug gets into an animal...
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Panfisher
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I'm probably the odd man on the barnes bullets. Every rifle I have shot them through, which is only a few, have shot them beautifully, and I do mean beautifully. The biggest problem I had with them was the cost of the darn things. Since all I basically hunt anymore is white-tails I simply don't need that high performance of a bullet. Rem Cor-lokts, Hornady Interloks, Speer Hot Cors etc. have worked woderfully. I did take great pains to keep the bore of my rifles clean and clear of copper fouling. I used a lot of JB bore scrubber, LBT lapping compound, Kroil and things like that to get it out. Don't use the Barnes CR-10 much, the smell of the ammonnia really gets to me.

I love my 7mms. Though I don't have the 7 Mag any more, I still have a .280 and the Rem 7 in 7-08. The little Rem isn't a tack driver, but it will group them well enough that I don't worry about it, and its just dang cute too.

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Take a kid with you.

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G.MAN
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I found this on Barnes web site. And again I am agreeing with Dboone
quote:
How can I achieve optimum accuracy with the X-Bullet?
1) Thoroughly clean your barrel with an aggressive copper remover (Barnes CR-10 or Sweets 7.62). Our solid copper X-Bullet is made of a softer material than used in conventional jacketed bullets. Be sure to clean any jacket fouling from your barrel before you shoot X-Bullets. We've found that jacket fouling diminishes accuracy with our bullets.

2) Because X- Bullets are solid copper, they have different pressure characteristics compared to conventional jacketed bullets. In our lab, we have experienced best pressures and accuracy when X-Bullets are seated .030" - .070" off the lands (the grooves or rifling in a barrel). The majority of the time, we've seen optimum accuracy when bullets are seated .050" off the lands, so start there. Then move backward or forward in .050" - .010" increments to find the "sweet spot" for your particular rifle.

The way I understand it is if you have copper material in the bbl from other bullets then switch to a soft bullet like barnes the accuracy might not be there.
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ko338
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I see the fouling part, that makes complete sense. They use zinc to harden the jacket material so they (barnes) are technically softer copper wise.

The part I’m having trouble with is that a solid copper bullet is softer than a jacketed lead one. If you put a jacketed bullet under a press and a copper bullet under a press, wouldn’t it take more pressure to deform the solid as opposed to the bi-metal one?

Barnes X has higher pressures from equivalent loads of powders due to this dense construction.

Barnes even stresses in their FAQ that X bullets won’t harm your barrel assuming you keep it clean. I quote

quote:
“ Is it true that X-Bullets will wear out my barrel quicker than jacketed bullets?

As long as you clean your barrel frequently and shoot X-Bullets only in a clean barrel, there is no way X-Bullets will wear out your barrel any faster than other bullets. When X-Bullets were first developed, we experimented with copper usage. We found that pure, solid copper is the most effective material to use. We have shot thousands of X-Bullets through our barrels without seeing any unusual wear. “

Being that I think you will agree that a conventional bullet will deform with less pressure, wouldn’t that mean that if a conventional jacketed bullet will bulge a barrel due to extreme fouling, a Barnes X will do it quicker? (meaning earlier, as the barrel becomes more and more dirty)

I don't want to Hi-jack or anything, I am just trying to understand.

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"Big guns can be loaded down to little gun levels, little guns are always little guns"

"Dead is Dead"

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D Boone
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The higher pressures associated with the Barnes bullets are caused by two things... First, solid copper bullets are less dense than traditional jacketed lead bullets. That means in order to get the same weight in a Barnes bullet you must make it longer. When you make a bullet longer you increase the amount of material in cotact with the bore. More surface area in contact with the bore = more pressure all other things being equal.
In terms of lead core bullets being more easily deformed...yes that's true. Which means less pressure required to drive it down the barrel compared to the Barnes X.
But again, soft copper has a much higher coeffecient of friction in the barrel (the copper holds on to the barrel steel better than gilding metal) than the gilding metal so again...that drive up pressures.

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SPRAD
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7mm mag will work perfect for an elk. just be sure to use a deep penetrating slow expanding bullet.

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THAT WHICH DOESNT KILL US MAKES US STRONGER

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147 Grain
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Suggest 160-gr. Nosler AccuBonds / Partitions or 175-gr. Partitions.
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kn4lq
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If you handload for your 7mm Mag:

For short range work (300 and under) try the 154 Gr Hornaday Inter Bond bullet (BC:0.530) loaded behind a charge of 69.3 Grs. of RL-25 with WLRM PRIMERS. This should give about 2900 FPS. Sight this load in to shoot 4 inches high at 100 Yds and you will shoot almost dead on at 300 Yds, and be about 10.6 inches low at 400 Yards, with 1709 FT LBS of energy left at 400Yd mark. [Smile]

If you will be shooting over 300 Yards try the Hornaday 162 Gr SST (BC:0.550) behind 67 Grs of RL-25 with the WLRM. This should give you about 2900 fps. If you sight it to shoot 4 inches high at 100 Yds. it will shoot almost dead on at 300 Yards and about 10.6 inches low at 400Yds. At 400 YDS this load will have some where around 1834 ft lbs of energy left. [Wink]

Just in case you decide to try the heavy 175 grain Here is a load for Hornaday's 175 interlock SP (BC:0.462): 64 Grains of RL-25 with WLRM primers. This load will give about 2800 FPS and when sighted to shoot 4.4 inches high at 100 Yards will shoot point of aim at 300 Yards and shoot about 12.2 inches low at 400 Yds. It will have a remaining energy of about 1652 ft lbs at 400 YDS.
(YES, THE HORNADY SST AND INTERBOND 154&162 GRAIN BULLETS DO HAVE A HIGHER HIGH BC THAN THE 175 SOFT POINT WITH INTER-LOCK RING)

The above hand loads are on the warm side but well within Pressure limits.(As with any reloading data you should start a few grains under listed charges then work up to the load, watching for signs of excessive pressure in your individual firearm) [Big Grin]

If you do not reload, You can use any of the newer bonded, or poly tipped controlled expansion, or the older standbys like Grand Slams, Partrons,and simular type bullets, and sight them in the same as above. [Cool]

I will give you my point of view on long range shooting while hunting Elk or simular type animals: Unless you have a accurate range finder, and a solid rest to sturdy your rifle and shoot from, You should not try shots which appear to be longer than 300 yards. There are just to many factors which can influence the shot, with trajectory amd wind drift being the most major factors in hitting a vital area, even for the flat shooting 7mm Mag. It is always a much safer gamble to attempt to stalk closer to the animal than to attempt a shot at that range. A bullet can easily be blown off course by unseen wind gusts, causing a miss or worse a bad hit resulting in a wounded animal.

True, You may spook the Elk when trying to get closer, but not as badly as a close missed shot will,and you won’t have a nasty trailing job or lost wounded animal hit from a bullet blown off its mark. You may even get second chance at it later. I think all the experienced hunters will agree with me on that one! [Razz]


Anyways using the 7mm Mag and the new bonded or controlled expansion poly tipped bullets you should have the punch needed for deep penitration and expansion needed to reach the vitals for a quick clean kill out to the 400 YD mark, even if the shot you take is an angling shot or break a shoulder.

GOD LUCK an hope you get a NICE ONE

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If you can dream it, you can acheive it!

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ko338
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Absolutely, use a rest on long shots, always!!
It isn't a beer can you are shooting at.

If you need to, build a set of cross sticks like Varmint Al's Bi-Fur-Pod. Or use a pack, tree, etc.
These bipods are really cool though, every one should have one!

Bi-Fur-Pod

Also, the range finder is spot on, in the old days, we had to estimate range, and you get fairly good at it, but there is no reason to guesstimate any more. Midway has Leica's on sale for $300.00
and there are lots cheaper ones.

The guys I know that live out west all say that one of their unknown secrets is that elk are hunted by most of them at much shorter ranges than what most people prepare for on a trip west. After all, they kill them all the time with a bow.

It is smart to have a rifle capable of a long range shot, because it may be all you get. Hunting trips are expensive, why risk wasting money?

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"Big guns can be loaded down to little gun levels, little guns are always little guns"

"Dead is Dead"

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Jayman
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Do yourself a favor and get a .338WM...You'll never look back!... [Wink]
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Colorado
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quote:
Originally posted by Jayman:
Do yourself a favor and get a .338WM...You'll never look back!... [Wink]

I will second that!!! [Big Grin]
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wapiti montana
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the .338 wm is awesome !! but a bit stiff for deer ... i have blown up the bellys on a few [Razz]
kind of gross but it puts meat in the frezzer [Big Grin]

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Jayman
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Posted by Wapiti:

quote:
... i have blown up the bellys on a few
kind of gross but it puts meat in the frezzer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aim a tad towards the front leg...And you won't have that problem... [Wink] [Big Grin]
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Colorado
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quote:
Originally posted by Jayman:
Posted by Wapiti:

quote:
... i have blown up the bellys on a few
kind of gross but it puts meat in the frezzer
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aim a tad towards the front leg...And you won't have that problem... [Wink] [Big Grin]
[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]
Posts: 797 | From: Roswell, GA  |  IP: Logged


 
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